Writing what we don't precisely 'know'.
Jan. 14th, 2009 12:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rhienellethThere is an interesting discussion going on at Elizabeth Bear's journal today that started a couple of days ago, with another post, to which this was a reaction, but really this topic has been circulating the blogosphere for some time before that, even. (This post by ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
deepad is also extremely relevant.)
Okay. Wow, where to start? First, let me say this issue has been turning around in my mind for awhile, now, as it significantly relates to my own writing. Also, I don't want to offend anyone, but as this is as much an emotional issue as abortion or rape, it's almost a guarantee of offending someone just by talking about it. Here are a couple in inalienable truths before I dive in to my thoughts:
1. I am a white woman in my thirties, born and raised in the US.
2. As such, you are right - I do not have the knowledge and understanding of your culture, however it differs from my own, that you do! That means anything I write different from my own background, is going to have readers who know more about that background than I do, no matter how much I research it.
3. Ergo, someone is likely to pick up on my mistakes.
4. Which brings me to - MISTAKES in and of themselves do NOT make an author racist. Sorry, they don't. And also - and here is an unpopular opinion - not every nuance of character that can be read as racism or prejudice IS a mistake.
Allow me to explain. Here's a snippet from one of my WIP's:
It was a good, solid hit to the ribs, but not enough to make McClairen wince. Instead, he grinned, a fierce flash of teeth that had Gavin’s eyes widening just a bit. Good. Maybe he’d learn something from this. Like not to challenge his pack’s much more experienced alpha.
Without a qualm, he broke the boy’s arm.
Gavin’s face went white, though he made no sound. McClairen almost smiled for truth at that, but didn’t. Instead, he leaned in, and spoke so that no one else would hear, even with vyusher ears.
“You’ll want to yield now,” he said, “’less you want me to break th’ other one.” He lifted a brow as he said it, and Gavin’s face went even paler.
Mutely, the young wolf shook his head. He cradled his broken arm carefully to his body, and slowly knelt, turning his head so that his throat was exposed, should McClairen wish to rip it out. Which, of course, he didn’t. Not this time. Instead, the vyusher leader turned and walked free of the challenge circle. Pack members yipped and howled and called out their approval, but he merely nodded in response, his eyes searching the crowd. Ah, there.
Arms folded across his chest, the tall, dark skinned man didn’t participate in the excited revelry around him. He watched McClairen; when their eyes met, Tyrell nodded, and started toward him. When he moved, other wolves got out of the way. It wasn’t conscious on their part, mostly. It’s just what lesser wolves did, when one as strong as Ty moved among them. In moments, he was at McClairen’s side, and around them a circle of emptiness formed as wolves scattered. When the alpha and his second stood together, no one wanted to intrude.
“I tried to dissuade him,” said Ty, his voice low as they began to walk side by side. He shook his head, though his face remained implacable. “There seems to be a misconception among the new wolves, that I follow you for mysterious reasons of my own, and not because you’d kill me in a challenge.”
They exchanged a look, the weight of history passing between them in an instant. They didn’t talk about it, not ever. But neither man ever forgot.
It was easy to see where the misconception came from, especially for the wolves newer to the pack: those who had never fought at McClairen’s side in the war. For decades the vyusher and other were-creatures had been persecuted, hunted down by demons and killed – rounded up, used, and destroyed like cattle. Their numbers hadn’t been depleted as badly as the Romani, but then, Zoltan had a special hatred for Gaia’s gypsies.
Tyrell carried gypsy blood in his veins. Not much, but even that little bit was enough. McClairen was too late to save his mate, or his children, but he’d managed to pull Tyrell back from death. The hardest part had been finding the other man something to live for. In the end, the need for vengeance had brought Ty back, as much as any healing McClairen had done.
There had never been any question of challenge. Ty still carried the scars from the Raither demon claws that tried to take his life, that had murdered his family. And he’d fought beside McClairen until Zoltan and his army of demons were defeated. Each man knew what the other was capable of. Even if McClairen hadn’t saved his life, Tyrell would never challenge him for leadership of the pack.
But the young ones didn’t understand. They saw Ty’s broad, muscular frame, his battle scars, and they compared him to McClairen – in human form, there was no doubt who was the stronger. McClairen was half a foot shorter than Ty, and though physically impressive, he would never win at arm wrestling the other man.
McClairen in the powerful half-wolf, vyusher’sedre form, however, was another matter.
He flexed his left hand, the circular brand burned into his flesh there, and cast a look back at the unfortunate Gavin. No, the new wolves didn’t understand. Gaia’s blessing made him nigh unbeatable in both his wolf and half-wolf forms. Easily twice the size of even Ty. But it didn’t matter, not really. McClairen didn’t lose. Not even as a boy, fighting for his life against someone five times his size. Before the Goddess singled him out.
“You didn’t change forms,” said Ty, following his gaze. McClairen shrugged.
“Too powerful. I’d’ve risked killing him.”
“Ah.” Ty didn’t need to add more. The wolves, like the rest of the were-races and the Romani, were trying to rebuild numbers. Killing the upstart pup would have been counterproductive. But McClairen was getting tired of these challenges for dominance. If Gavin made the mistake of challenging him again, he’d have no choice but to make an example of him. Wolf Run had a constant influx of new wolves these days. New, young, full of themselves. Stupid.
He sighed.
“Maybe it’s time for story night again,” said Ty, rubbing a hand over his jaw. McClairen looked up, one eyebrow raised.
“Story night, eh?”
Ty shrugged as he watched a group of four pups tussle and roll, wrestling a few feet away in mock challenges.
“The new ones need to hear, need to know what the pack has been through.” He paused. “What you’re capable of.”
“They’ll either learn, or I’ll have to kill one of ‘em,” said McClairen with a shrug of his own. Tyrell gave him a look.
“Exactly. You don’t want to, cause you’ve got a soft spot for the young. This way they’ll learn, and you won’t have to put down the next idiot to challenge you.”
“You just like telling’ that story, ‘bout me and Zoltan.”
Ty gave a rare smile, a white flash of teeth against the smooth dark of his skin.
“You broke both his arms, and his legs. The most powerful, most immortal moroii to ever live, and you played with him like…like that pup back there.” He jerked his head back toward Gavin. “It makes a good story.”
McClairen shook his head, amused.
“Gypsy,” he accused.
“Stick and stones,” said Ty.
“All right, fine. Do story night.”
His second stopped and executed a low bow. Probably only McClairen caught the bit of mockery in the motion. Probably.
“Thank-you, oh gracious one.”
McClairen barely kept from rolling his eyes. Much as he loved Her, Gaia definitely had some issues. A little bit of gypsy blood went an awful damn long way.
~~~~~~~~
Okay, so many things there, where to start? First, this is a bit from a sequel to a book I wrote, which features the war that's referenced in McClairen and Ty's conversation. I had pretty much every single character cast in the role of "minority". To start, the MC was a young female gypsy - a minority race of my world, so prejudiced against that they were the focus of an attempt at genocide by my Big Bad.
Now, am I a gypsy? No.
Am I a woman? Yes.
Am I a minority that's been persecuted to near extinction? No.
I wrote the book anyway. I'm sure I made mistakes. For one thing, I loosely based my gypsies on real gypsies. They aren't meant to "represent" real gypsies, as much as they are meant to be a fantastical and somewhat romanticized take on them. I CHOSE to do that. ON PURPOSE. Because the gypsies from our world had cultural things I very much wanted my Rom to have. Because the very word, "gypsy" automatically brings to mind an image I wanted readers to have when they read the book. Because I took my vampire myth partly from that culture. Because it fit, and it worked, and I did hours and hours of research to try and do the very best job I could, while making deliberate creative choices that made MY gypsies absolutely different from those in the really real world.
I do not apologize for this, and if the book ever gets published, I'll include a forward explaining some of it, because I feel like I should. Because I've already had one crit reader respond by telling me everything I did wrong with my gypsies, as historically they didn't worship Gaia, etc, etc. (This is a fantasy book, set in a dark fantasy world - it isn't a mirror of our own.)
But the snippet is from the sequel, so let's talk about that. I made Ty black, not because I felt I "needed to have a character of color", but because he came to me in my head as this big black man with scars both inside and out, with a bit of roguish gypsy charm and this tortured past. Because I couldn't envision him as any other race or color. Am I afraid I won't be able to portray him correctly? A little, maybe. But only since this whole discussion has cropped up all over the blogosphere. I wasn't afraid, before.
And how sad is that? That now I worry how many people might be offended by the gypsies I loved writing, or by this black man who serves not as alpha, but as the alpha's second. Will someone see that as some form of oppression? Because the alpha, McClairen, is not only white, but has this drawl to his speech that some might see as southern, and who knows what someone will read into that? I see Ty as one of the strongest characters in the book. He plays a significant, powerful role, and someday I may feature him as the MC of his own story.
And, if you notice, it isn't his skin color that made him a persecuted character. Because in that particular world, being black isn't what people discriminate against - being a werewolf, and being gypsy, though, those are another matter entirely. I can't figure out what people will read into that, though, if anything. Am I insensitive? Progressive? What?
They say you should "write what you know". It's one of the oldest writing "rules" and the most ambiguous. I actually despise that rule a great deal. "Write what you know" - well, if we all wrote about only the things we knew and experienced, there wouldn't be very many exciting books out there. Okay, so "write what you know" - stick to your cultural background, your society, your gender - where do we draw the line? Should I only write female POV characters because I'm a woman? No, I don't thinks so. Okay, one last time, "write what you know" - as a reader, I'm most familiar with fantasy, but I recently completed a space opera, science fiction. That's not "what I knew" up until that point. Hmm. I seem to be breaking this "rule" a lot.
How about "write what you know" - write what you WANT to write, even if it's different and new for you, whether it be genre, gender, culturally or historically, but do your research and be conscious of the creative decisions you make. Know that nothing you write is ever going to please everyone, and that something you write will inevitably offend someone. Just do the best job you can.
That's the only thing I can do. Because I'm not going to stop writing the characters who speak to me.
deepad is also extremely relevant.) Okay. Wow, where to start? First, let me say this issue has been turning around in my mind for awhile, now, as it significantly relates to my own writing. Also, I don't want to offend anyone, but as this is as much an emotional issue as abortion or rape, it's almost a guarantee of offending someone just by talking about it. Here are a couple in inalienable truths before I dive in to my thoughts:
1. I am a white woman in my thirties, born and raised in the US.
2. As such, you are right - I do not have the knowledge and understanding of your culture, however it differs from my own, that you do! That means anything I write different from my own background, is going to have readers who know more about that background than I do, no matter how much I research it.
3. Ergo, someone is likely to pick up on my mistakes.
4. Which brings me to - MISTAKES in and of themselves do NOT make an author racist. Sorry, they don't. And also - and here is an unpopular opinion - not every nuance of character that can be read as racism or prejudice IS a mistake.
Allow me to explain. Here's a snippet from one of my WIP's:
It was a good, solid hit to the ribs, but not enough to make McClairen wince. Instead, he grinned, a fierce flash of teeth that had Gavin’s eyes widening just a bit. Good. Maybe he’d learn something from this. Like not to challenge his pack’s much more experienced alpha.
Without a qualm, he broke the boy’s arm.
Gavin’s face went white, though he made no sound. McClairen almost smiled for truth at that, but didn’t. Instead, he leaned in, and spoke so that no one else would hear, even with vyusher ears.
“You’ll want to yield now,” he said, “’less you want me to break th’ other one.” He lifted a brow as he said it, and Gavin’s face went even paler.
Mutely, the young wolf shook his head. He cradled his broken arm carefully to his body, and slowly knelt, turning his head so that his throat was exposed, should McClairen wish to rip it out. Which, of course, he didn’t. Not this time. Instead, the vyusher leader turned and walked free of the challenge circle. Pack members yipped and howled and called out their approval, but he merely nodded in response, his eyes searching the crowd. Ah, there.
Arms folded across his chest, the tall, dark skinned man didn’t participate in the excited revelry around him. He watched McClairen; when their eyes met, Tyrell nodded, and started toward him. When he moved, other wolves got out of the way. It wasn’t conscious on their part, mostly. It’s just what lesser wolves did, when one as strong as Ty moved among them. In moments, he was at McClairen’s side, and around them a circle of emptiness formed as wolves scattered. When the alpha and his second stood together, no one wanted to intrude.
“I tried to dissuade him,” said Ty, his voice low as they began to walk side by side. He shook his head, though his face remained implacable. “There seems to be a misconception among the new wolves, that I follow you for mysterious reasons of my own, and not because you’d kill me in a challenge.”
They exchanged a look, the weight of history passing between them in an instant. They didn’t talk about it, not ever. But neither man ever forgot.
It was easy to see where the misconception came from, especially for the wolves newer to the pack: those who had never fought at McClairen’s side in the war. For decades the vyusher and other were-creatures had been persecuted, hunted down by demons and killed – rounded up, used, and destroyed like cattle. Their numbers hadn’t been depleted as badly as the Romani, but then, Zoltan had a special hatred for Gaia’s gypsies.
Tyrell carried gypsy blood in his veins. Not much, but even that little bit was enough. McClairen was too late to save his mate, or his children, but he’d managed to pull Tyrell back from death. The hardest part had been finding the other man something to live for. In the end, the need for vengeance had brought Ty back, as much as any healing McClairen had done.
There had never been any question of challenge. Ty still carried the scars from the Raither demon claws that tried to take his life, that had murdered his family. And he’d fought beside McClairen until Zoltan and his army of demons were defeated. Each man knew what the other was capable of. Even if McClairen hadn’t saved his life, Tyrell would never challenge him for leadership of the pack.
But the young ones didn’t understand. They saw Ty’s broad, muscular frame, his battle scars, and they compared him to McClairen – in human form, there was no doubt who was the stronger. McClairen was half a foot shorter than Ty, and though physically impressive, he would never win at arm wrestling the other man.
McClairen in the powerful half-wolf, vyusher’sedre form, however, was another matter.
He flexed his left hand, the circular brand burned into his flesh there, and cast a look back at the unfortunate Gavin. No, the new wolves didn’t understand. Gaia’s blessing made him nigh unbeatable in both his wolf and half-wolf forms. Easily twice the size of even Ty. But it didn’t matter, not really. McClairen didn’t lose. Not even as a boy, fighting for his life against someone five times his size. Before the Goddess singled him out.
“You didn’t change forms,” said Ty, following his gaze. McClairen shrugged.
“Too powerful. I’d’ve risked killing him.”
“Ah.” Ty didn’t need to add more. The wolves, like the rest of the were-races and the Romani, were trying to rebuild numbers. Killing the upstart pup would have been counterproductive. But McClairen was getting tired of these challenges for dominance. If Gavin made the mistake of challenging him again, he’d have no choice but to make an example of him. Wolf Run had a constant influx of new wolves these days. New, young, full of themselves. Stupid.
He sighed.
“Maybe it’s time for story night again,” said Ty, rubbing a hand over his jaw. McClairen looked up, one eyebrow raised.
“Story night, eh?”
Ty shrugged as he watched a group of four pups tussle and roll, wrestling a few feet away in mock challenges.
“The new ones need to hear, need to know what the pack has been through.” He paused. “What you’re capable of.”
“They’ll either learn, or I’ll have to kill one of ‘em,” said McClairen with a shrug of his own. Tyrell gave him a look.
“Exactly. You don’t want to, cause you’ve got a soft spot for the young. This way they’ll learn, and you won’t have to put down the next idiot to challenge you.”
“You just like telling’ that story, ‘bout me and Zoltan.”
Ty gave a rare smile, a white flash of teeth against the smooth dark of his skin.
“You broke both his arms, and his legs. The most powerful, most immortal moroii to ever live, and you played with him like…like that pup back there.” He jerked his head back toward Gavin. “It makes a good story.”
McClairen shook his head, amused.
“Gypsy,” he accused.
“Stick and stones,” said Ty.
“All right, fine. Do story night.”
His second stopped and executed a low bow. Probably only McClairen caught the bit of mockery in the motion. Probably.
“Thank-you, oh gracious one.”
McClairen barely kept from rolling his eyes. Much as he loved Her, Gaia definitely had some issues. A little bit of gypsy blood went an awful damn long way.
~~~~~~~~
Okay, so many things there, where to start? First, this is a bit from a sequel to a book I wrote, which features the war that's referenced in McClairen and Ty's conversation. I had pretty much every single character cast in the role of "minority". To start, the MC was a young female gypsy - a minority race of my world, so prejudiced against that they were the focus of an attempt at genocide by my Big Bad.
Now, am I a gypsy? No.
Am I a woman? Yes.
Am I a minority that's been persecuted to near extinction? No.
I wrote the book anyway. I'm sure I made mistakes. For one thing, I loosely based my gypsies on real gypsies. They aren't meant to "represent" real gypsies, as much as they are meant to be a fantastical and somewhat romanticized take on them. I CHOSE to do that. ON PURPOSE. Because the gypsies from our world had cultural things I very much wanted my Rom to have. Because the very word, "gypsy" automatically brings to mind an image I wanted readers to have when they read the book. Because I took my vampire myth partly from that culture. Because it fit, and it worked, and I did hours and hours of research to try and do the very best job I could, while making deliberate creative choices that made MY gypsies absolutely different from those in the really real world.
I do not apologize for this, and if the book ever gets published, I'll include a forward explaining some of it, because I feel like I should. Because I've already had one crit reader respond by telling me everything I did wrong with my gypsies, as historically they didn't worship Gaia, etc, etc. (This is a fantasy book, set in a dark fantasy world - it isn't a mirror of our own.)
But the snippet is from the sequel, so let's talk about that. I made Ty black, not because I felt I "needed to have a character of color", but because he came to me in my head as this big black man with scars both inside and out, with a bit of roguish gypsy charm and this tortured past. Because I couldn't envision him as any other race or color. Am I afraid I won't be able to portray him correctly? A little, maybe. But only since this whole discussion has cropped up all over the blogosphere. I wasn't afraid, before.
And how sad is that? That now I worry how many people might be offended by the gypsies I loved writing, or by this black man who serves not as alpha, but as the alpha's second. Will someone see that as some form of oppression? Because the alpha, McClairen, is not only white, but has this drawl to his speech that some might see as southern, and who knows what someone will read into that? I see Ty as one of the strongest characters in the book. He plays a significant, powerful role, and someday I may feature him as the MC of his own story.
And, if you notice, it isn't his skin color that made him a persecuted character. Because in that particular world, being black isn't what people discriminate against - being a werewolf, and being gypsy, though, those are another matter entirely. I can't figure out what people will read into that, though, if anything. Am I insensitive? Progressive? What?
They say you should "write what you know". It's one of the oldest writing "rules" and the most ambiguous. I actually despise that rule a great deal. "Write what you know" - well, if we all wrote about only the things we knew and experienced, there wouldn't be very many exciting books out there. Okay, so "write what you know" - stick to your cultural background, your society, your gender - where do we draw the line? Should I only write female POV characters because I'm a woman? No, I don't thinks so. Okay, one last time, "write what you know" - as a reader, I'm most familiar with fantasy, but I recently completed a space opera, science fiction. That's not "what I knew" up until that point. Hmm. I seem to be breaking this "rule" a lot.
How about "write what you know" - write what you WANT to write, even if it's different and new for you, whether it be genre, gender, culturally or historically, but do your research and be conscious of the creative decisions you make. Know that nothing you write is ever going to please everyone, and that something you write will inevitably offend someone. Just do the best job you can.
That's the only thing I can do. Because I'm not going to stop writing the characters who speak to me.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-01-14 08:37 pm (UTC)That's always been a pet peeve of mine. Currently, I'm writing a book from the POV of a 35 year old windower, who is a single father. He's also a genius engineer. He is absolutely everything I have never been and will never be, just by his very nature.
But he also lives in a futuristic world of my making. So if people are going to be so stringent about "write what you know," no one would be able to write this story. Because no one has ever lived or experienced the life my main character has. Speculative fiction would go extinct if people took "write what you know" literally.
But what's important for people to understand is that we are writing stories. Nothing our characters encounter is going to be 100% true of anyone in the same or similar situation. But I also processes "write what to you know" to mean more deeply, "write what you want to know."
To tell writers they can only write their own age/gender/class/race/religion, etc. is like handing a paintbrush to an artist and telling them the only paintings they can paint are self-portraits. Yeah, maybe they will understand themselves a little better than they will another person... but that sure would make for a lot of boring, egotistic paintings, wouldn't it?
no subject
Date: 2009-01-14 10:19 pm (UTC)I "just happen" to be Asian American...
Date: 2009-01-14 09:26 pm (UTC)I'm half Caucasion (European mix), half Asian (Korean). By Asians, I'm considered odd, not "really" Asian, especially since I was raised solely by my white father from a young age. By non-Asians, I am Asian. They assume "Asian" things about me. Including cultural mannerisms that might make more sense if I were raised in that culture.* The other half of my genetic ethnicity means nothing.
It doesn't stop me from writing about white women or Asian women, or women who are mixed like me, but not mixed with the same things. It doesn't really make my writing more genuine in any case, because I don't know much more about being white than I do Korean. It doesn't stop me from writing about people with married parents, or people with children, or people with siblings--none of these things apply to me, either.
There is racism in writing. There is fetishism and exoctism and stereotyping. It sucks. But it's also very noticeable. At least to me. At least I think so. Maybe. I don't know. Having a person of color doesn't need to be an agenda, it doesn't need to be a statement. Sometimes, it doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's just a token, which is really even more insulting.
But the honest to god truth is that even as one of these people of color, I don't know any more than you do and I don't know what to do either about this stuff. If I write a story and there's an Asian guy who beats his wife, am I saying all Asians are abusive, or is it okay because I'm Asian? If I write about a Hispanic women who also happens to be a thief and the bad guy in the story, am I being racist, or is it okay becaues I'm also part of a minority? I don't have the answers to these questions.
(*And to show that nothing applies to everything, mother actually expects me to act like a proper Korean daughter, despite having nothing to do with my upbringing.)
(I deleted one long comment and wrote another. Weee.)
Re: I "just happen" to be Asian American...
Date: 2009-01-14 10:17 pm (UTC)I resisted for two days, but it kept turning around and around in my head, and then I couldn't not write out my thinky thoughts about it.
It doesn't stop me from writing about white women or Asian women, or women who are mixed like me, but not mixed with the same things. It doesn't really make my writing more genuine in any case, because I don't know much more about being white than I do Korean. It doesn't stop me from writing about people with married parents, or people with children, or people with siblings--none of these things apply to me, either.
Yes, absolutely, 100% agree. EXACTLY. Writers write what they don't "know" all the time - we have to.
There is racism in writing. There is fetishism and exoctism and stereotyping. It sucks. But it's also very noticeable. At least to me. At least I think so. Maybe. I don't know. Having a person of color doesn't need to be an agenda, it doesn't need to be a statement. Sometimes, it doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's just a token, which is really even more insulting.
But the honest to god truth is that even as one of these people of color, I don't know any more than you do and I don't know what to do either about this stuff. If I write a story and there's an Asian guy who beats his wife, am I saying all Asians are abusive, or is it okay because I'm Asian? If I write about a Hispanic women who also happens to be a thief and the bad guy in the story, am I being racist, or is it okay becaues I'm also part of a minority? I don't have the answers to these questions.
I know, it's a slippery slope, because it seems like someone is always waiting to point a finger and cry foul. It's sort of like what I remember thinking back in school, when we were dissecting books for all their hidden meanings, and I wanted to scream "But sometimes it doesn't mean ANYTHING." It doesn't have to be racist, or a political/cultural statement, or a token. Sometimes I'm sure it is one or more of those things. But sometimes, it just is, and it isn't an indication of anything deeper.
Re: I "just happen" to be Asian American...
Date: 2009-01-14 10:28 pm (UTC)I don't know how many times I argued this in every English class. One of my assigned papers was based on that premise exactly: And just how do you know what the author was thinking, smart ass!
no subject
Date: 2009-01-15 07:52 am (UTC)I called Elizabeth Bear out on privilege; white privilege.
You write: "But sometimes it doesn't mean ANYTHING."
It's a privilege to be able to have that, to be able to have something not mean anything; not be another example of how 'everyone knows that ____ are just like ____'
Even with
no subject
Date: 2009-01-15 08:52 pm (UTC)The life of a black person who was raised in Africa is very different, than say one raised in England. Or America. Or Germany. Or India.
So, I guess that black person should only write about where they grew up, and their lives - or is it's OK for them to make mistakes because of the color of their skin? That's just racism backwards, and total crap.
There has been racism, there is racism - but some people seem to need to see it EVERYWHERE. I know people who bitch and moan about how they've been discriminated against (and we share the discrimination characteristic by the way) and I also know that they are totally full of shit. They're so pissed off that they see anything they don't like as racism. That's not what it is, it's just stuff that happens to all people, all the time. But it's so much easier to claim "persecution" or "racism".
And at the end of the day any fiction writer is going to have to make shit up. They can do research and they can try to understand. They can not do research and be asshats. But either way, they are going to have to make shit up - that's what fiction is. I think the biggest thing to look at is if they tried or not.
Personally, I think that racism and other forms of persecution will only go away when everyone learns to accept other viewpoints. Not for themselves, but in their own context, for the people who have those view points.
I suppose it's also worth noting that when anyone starts talking about racism (like they are for it or why it's right) I pretty much put them in the "batshitcrazy" box, and ignore them. They're talking crazy talk. At the end of the day, we are all people - and have much more in common than we have differences.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-19 09:50 pm (UTC)If someone like me reads all that in the piece of
Not being sensitized to the implications of how certain words and actions might fit into broader social trends is a privilege. Unless society changes, that privilege won't go away. But the privilege that comes with being a thoughtful human being who cares about whether her words might hurt other people is that you can learn not to exercise the privileges that automatically come with being white.
Maybe most of the people you encounter who talk about 'racism' directly are batshitcrazy. But give people the benefit of the doubt: they might just be coming from a very different set of experiences, and they might be generously exercising their own privilege of being thoughtful human beings who care about helping people not hurt other people by saying, 'Hey. I don't think you realize it, but the way you or this other person are framing their own struggles with this difficult topic is hurting me, and it has the potential to hurt other people because it is representative (albeit more subtly) of ways in which society is broken and conscious and unconscious racism is perpetuated.'
It's something I know I still struggle with, as a writer and as someone just trying very hard not to hurt other people or make the problem worse.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-15 01:54 am (UTC)Somebody I can't recall right now (I'm useless, right?) once modified that "write what you know" to something along the lines of "write from what you know into what you don't know." I like that one a lot better.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-15 06:08 pm (UTC)It depends what definition of racism you're using. Someone who says a mistake was racist probably doesn't mean the colloquial OMG THIS PERSON IS EEEVIL definition, but an activist definition that focuses on structural issues. By that definition, the mistakes are racist because they are born of a system that predisposes the author to make mistakes in certain directions more than others. Calling an author racist by that definition isn't a personal attack, because by that definition it's inevitable that all non-POC authors are racist, for reasons for which they bear no personal responsibility. What they're responsible for is how they respond to having instances of racism pointed out to them, and other matters of that nature.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-15 06:48 pm (UTC)So, every author who's not a POC is racist by default? Wow. So every white author who uses any POC characters should accept that they're racist - but it's not a personal attack? I'm sorry, but I don't see how that term could apply and not be taken personally. Like so many others in our society, it belongs to a category that makes it not just a word with a definition - it carries immediate negative connotations. It's associated with ignorance and hate.
And I guess one could argue that all white people are ignorant of what it's like to live the life of a POC. True. Absolutely true.
But does that make them racist simply because they can never truly know? A man doesn't know what it is to be a woman in our society, either, but I don't hold that against all male authors who write female POV characters.
A POC on my f-list recently said that, similar to the leap a white writer must take to write about a POC character, she must take the same leap to write about a white character.
I don't know. I don't want to hurt anyone, or make them angry. I don't want to be afraid of what everyone will think or believe about me if I write a character that is a POC.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-16 09:26 am (UTC)Part one
Date: 2009-01-19 09:53 pm (UTC)You said in your comment above, "I don't know. I don't want to hurt anyone, or make them angry. I don't want to be afraid of what everyone will think or believe about me if I write a character that is a POC."
Obviously, you can't please everyone, whatever you write, so any fear you might have of someone criticizing the way you write a character who is a POC is unlikely to be banished, since there will always be someone who criticizes any character you write, whether or not that person is a POC. I do think, however, there are definite things you can do to avoid hurting your readers whose experiences as a person of a particular cultural or ethnic minority have sensitized them to the subtle implications of how you portray POC characters.
For example, consider the passage of your WIP that you quoted in this post. I don't see anything offensive in how, "this black man who serves not as alpha, but as the alpha's second." What did jump out to me is that you introduced him as a "dark skinned man," which emphasized the fact that his skin color was worthy of notice. Now, considering that that particular section is 'colored,' shall we say, by McClairen's perspective, that may simply tell the reader that McClairen considers Ty's skin color to be part of what makes him physically distinctive, presumably because McClairen has a different skin color. An alert reader also picks up on the fact that Galvin is likely white, since his skin will noticeably change color, in this case pale, when he is experiencing strong emotion.
What might make it seem like you, the author, are emphasizing Ty's skin color as something important, something worthy of notice, is that when you write from Ty's perspective* or 'color' your descriptions from Ty's point of view (this sentence, "Ty shrugged as he watched a group of four pups tussle and roll, wrestling a few feet away in mock challenges," is implicitly a description from Ty's point of view), you don't include such descriptions of skin. When Ty follows McClairen's gaze back towards Gavin, does he see 'pale'? Pale not as in exhibiting fear, but pale as in a simple description of Galvin's skin color? When Ty looks at McClairen, does he see a short, pale-skinned man? Maybe he does. But unless you are delibrately trying to portray your characters as people who are consciously aware of each other's skin color and how that may or may not affect how they act towards each other, don't include that in how you introduce a character. Doing it more subtly, such as "white flash of teeth against the smooth dark of his skin" or "Gavin’s face went white, though he made no sound" will convey information about skin color** just fine without unduly emphasizing one over the other.
*or the perspective of any character you consider not 'white.'
**which I suspect all your readers will read (consciously or not) as code for ethnicity and as a clue towards membership in a particular 'racial' or 'national' group, which may affect social status.
Re: Part one
Date: 2009-01-21 05:51 pm (UTC)I'll definitely be writing/reading any scenes that mention skin color with a slightly different eye. You really broke it down from a writing craft perspective, and that helps me see what I can do better, here and in the future.
Part two
Date: 2009-01-19 09:54 pm (UTC)------------------------------
If someone like me reads all that in the piece of your writing you generously shared above, does that automatically put me in what [info]kistha so colorfully called her 'batshitcrazy' box? Because what I'm commenting on in a broader sense is how the societies you and I and all your other readers grew up in might affect the way you portray all your characters, POC or not. I'm not calling it racism per se, but I am suggesting that you might want to think more deeply about what you write because words have power and implications beyond those the author consciously gives them.
Not being sensitized to the implications of how certain words and actions might fit into broader social trends is a privilege. Unless society changes, that privilege won't go away. But the privilege that comes with being a thoughtful human being who cares about whether her words might hurt other people is that you can learn not to exercise the privileges that automatically come with being white.
Maybe most of the people you encounter who talk about 'racism' directly are batshitcrazy. But give people the benefit of the doubt: they might just be coming from a very different set of experiences, and they might be generously exercising their own privilege of being thoughtful human beings who care about helping people not hurt other people by saying, 'Hey. I don't think you realize it, but the way you are framing your own struggles with this difficult topic is hurting me, and it has the potential to hurt other people because it is representative (albeit more subtly) of ways in which society is broken and conscious and unconscious racism is perpetuated.'
It's something I know I still struggle with, as a writer and as someone just trying very hard not to hurt other people or make the problem worse.
If you're interested in continuing this conversation, I would love to talk to you further, whether here on your own journal or elsewhere.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-16 01:06 am (UTC)I do think the author has a responsibility to get things right when they are writing characters in an actual culture, but one that is foreign to them. However, I think there's a lot of leeway when the author is creating their own world with its own culture. As you noted, Ty doesn't have the same cultural history as an American black man in contemporary fiction would, nor should he. That's not the story that you're telling.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 08:33 pm (UTC)Also, I've been browsing your journal and like reading the posts, so friended you. Just thought I should mention. ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-01-06 12:23 am (UTC)